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Bienvenue sur le forum du Club ChaOdisiaque. Un maximum de news sur le jeu en général (JDR, MMORPG, Jeu vidéo, JOL, figurines etc...), des actualités concernant le WEB et le développement dans son ensemble. Des aides, astuces, outils pour vos jeux, vos créations web et un tas d'idées pour enrichir vos besoins ludiques. C'est un bon moyen de se tenir au courant des dernières sorties et surtout de trouver de l'aide à la création de site, de jeu et de site de jeu. Premier gros projet de l'association SierrElben... Faites parti de l'aventure...

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#1 
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Strict Standards: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected 'Europe/Berlin' for 'CEST/2.0/DST' instead in /homepages/3/d164323095/htdocs/wsb4049021801/forum/include/functions.php on line 656
25-06-2009 10:04:32

khazagin
ChaOtributeur
Lieu: Poitiers
Date d'inscription: 22-12-2007
Messages: 646

Fin de la V2

Le grog relaie l'annonce de la fin de la production de la V2 de warhammer, la campagne des milles trones sera le dernier supplément édité.
Y'a des rumeurs sur une V3; sur la gazette de Nuln ca parle de rapprocher le systeme de celui de Dark Heresy.

23 juin 2009 - Clap de fin pour Warhammer

Après l'annonce par Fantasy Flight Games de la mise à disposition des vieux ouvrages de la deuxième édition en PDF, la Bibliothèque Interdite annonce l'arrêt de la parution de suppléments pour la deuxième édition de Warhammer. Le prochain et dernier supplément sera la campagne des Mille Trônes, édité en deux ouvrages, à paraître en septembre (pour le Monde du Jeu) et en novembre (voir notre planning).

Gageons que l'éditeur terminera en beauté, avec cette imposante campagne, une aventure éditoriale débutée il y a plus de quatre ans de cela, et qui aura marqué les esprits par la qualité et la quantité de suppléments produits. En attendant, les couloirs bruissent de rumeurs à propos d'une éventuelle future troisième édition de Warhammer, sous l'égide de Fantasy Flight... Alors, info ou intox ?

Pour plus d'informations, voir l'annonce sur les forums de Edge / Ubik.

Bon, bah dommage pour l'ancêtre, c'était une version de regles que je trouvais vraiment bien.
Tant pis, j'aurai pas besoin d'acheter le nouveau systeme, celui la me convient, je prendrai que les supplément de BG.
Pompes a fric va!

A noter que les livres V2 seraient bientot tous dispo en PDF

Fantasy Flight Games a annoncé la mise à disposition sur les sites DriveThruRPG et RPGNow des suppléments pour le jeu de rôle Warhammer. La première vague de suppléments inclut le livre de base, le Old World Bestiary et Sigmar's Heirs. D'autres suppléments seront mis à disposition dans les prochaines semaines. L'objectif est de mettre ainsi à disposition les suppléments édités avant la cession de la license à FFG.

Pour plus d'informations, voir le communiqué de Fantasy Flight Games.

J'ai regardé, pour le moment y'a que 3 versions anglaises, mais les french devraient arriver d'ici peu.
Et avec des livres a moins de 11euro....


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Dernière modification par khazagin (25-06-2009 10:07:17)

Hors ligne

 

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#2 
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06-07-2009 11:55:07

khazagin
ChaOtributeur
Lieu: Poitiers
Date d'inscription: 22-12-2007
Messages: 646

Re: Fin de la V2

La V3 est confirmée.

WFRP 3
A coupe of weeks ago, our regular roleplaying group was privileged enough to playtest 3rd Edition Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. The guys from Fantasy Flight Games were over at Games Workshop HQ, and Jay Little very kindly did a show and tell for us over at Alessio Cavatore’s house, where we saw how much the game has changed from its previous incarnation. Our gaming group has been going for some time and we were all interested to see what was new with WFRP, since we’d playtested the previous edition also. It was in interesting evening, and the game was very different to anything I’ve played before, with a lot of table space taken up by character sheets, action and ability cards, dice etc. It felt like a strange hybrid of board game and roleplaying game at first, but once the notions of the new mechanics took hold, it felt very natural. Likewise, the new dice pool system felt odd at first, but once we’d rolled a few dice it immediately became very intuitive, which is surely the holy grail of any roleplaying system.

By the time we’d despatched the goblins and rescued the coachman, we didn’t have much time left to play out the more interpersonal encounters of the intro game, but we’d already gotten our heads around the system and were already looking to develop our characters – which is a good sign in any playtest. Overall, I really liked the changes to the game, and it makes a nice change from sitting with my Players Handbook and a grubby character sheet. I’m liking what Jay has done with the game, and there’s a clear desire to make it fit properly with the Warhammer World, where a lot of the previous edition’s books, with the best will in the world, just didn’t.

Source: http://www.graham-mcneill.com/gmblog/

Quand je lis ca: "... action and ability cards, dice etc. It felt like a strange hybrid of board game and roleplaying game ", j'ai un tres tres sale pressentiment sur le systeme.
Pour ceux qui parlent pas anglais, il dit que le nouveau systeme ressemble a un étrange hybride entre un jdr et un jeu de plateau, et juste avant il parle de carte d'actions et de capacités.

Bon, c'est qu'un avis de testeur, c'est pas étoffé et tout...donc on sait ap grand chose sur le systeme, faudra attendre un peu. Mais ca a l'air de prendre l'air du temps et de faire une v3 warham facon v4 pour D&D. Donc vers le plateau et le mmo...
Nique ton ambiance.

Hors ligne

 

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#3 
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06-07-2009 12:50:10

Lynx
ChaOdiz Vétéran
Date d'inscription: 31-03-2009
Messages: 232

Re: Fin de la V2

Franchement, ça me fait mal au cœur pour Warhammer de savoir qu'il s'oriente D&D4... hmm

La V2 faisait parti des pures jdr, loin du mmorpg et là, ben on va tomber bêtement dedans avec une V3 qui s'annonce pour le moment peu attirante, du moins pour moi...
D'ailleurs, je pense que bon nombre de fan de Warhammer seront d'accord avec moi, mais reste à voir ce que ça donnera à la sortie de la V3.


« Ils sont gentils, affectueux, fidèles, exempts de toute fourberie ou de supercheries. Les mots signifiant mensonge, tromperie, cupidité, envie, calomnie, pardon, leurs sont inconnus. Ils ne ressentent pas de jalousies et n'ont aucun sens de la possession. C'est réel, ce que je croyais être un rêve. »

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#4 
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06-07-2009 13:13:15

khazagin
ChaOtributeur
Lieu: Poitiers
Date d'inscription: 22-12-2007
Messages: 646

Re: Fin de la V2

Faut aussi nuancer, la le type ne dévoile pas grand chose a part l'idée que y'a une grosse inspi jeu de plateau...
Bon..perso je vois déja pas pourquoi changer de systeme, alors que l'existant était déja tres bien. on peut toujours améliorer, c'est sur, mais tout péter alors que c'est pas bancal...

Faudra voir du point du vue du BG s'ils font des choses bien.
Sinon ca vaudra tout simplement pas le coup.

Hors ligne

 

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#5 
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06-07-2009 13:25:49

ChaOdiz-Padre
ChaOdizAdmin
Lieu: LYON
Date d'inscription: 02-12-2007
Messages: 3352
Site web

Re: Fin de la V2

Merci pour l'info !!

Pour ma part, je vais attendre avant de me faire une idée, mais je suis d'accords avec vous, le système est déjà très bon, l'améliorer oui, le recommencer, je trouve ça dommage.

Mais, je ne pense pas qu'il s'oriente vers du DD4 ou du MMORPG, je pense plutôt qu'ils vont le rapprocher du jeu de figurine Warhammer Battle, mais je peux me tromper.

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#6 
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06-07-2009 13:39:21

Lynx
ChaOdiz Vétéran
Date d'inscription: 31-03-2009
Messages: 232

Re: Fin de la V2

Oui, c'est sûr qu'ils peuvent en faire quelque chose de très bien, mais je crains vraiment le D&D4 bis... Mais c'est clair qu'on a encore trop peu d'info pour juger, donc attendons, mais j'ai quand même hâte de voir le résultat.


« Ils sont gentils, affectueux, fidèles, exempts de toute fourberie ou de supercheries. Les mots signifiant mensonge, tromperie, cupidité, envie, calomnie, pardon, leurs sont inconnus. Ils ne ressentent pas de jalousies et n'ont aucun sens de la possession. C'est réel, ce que je croyais être un rêve. »

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#7 
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17-08-2009 22:54:44

ChaOdiz-Padre
ChaOdizAdmin
Lieu: LYON
Date d'inscription: 02-12-2007
Messages: 3352
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Re: Fin de la V2

Je reviendrais avec plus de news, mais en attendant que je décuve et que je redescende sur terre, voilà ce qui se mijote du côté de WJDR... Laissez vos comm :

JEEPEEONLINE a écrit:

Il semblerait que Fantasy Flight Games prépare une nouvelle mouture de Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.
Au-delà du blabla commercial, on comprend que la nouvelle édition de Warhammer proposera une approche différente des précédentes éditions: plus visuelle et plus tactique, quelque chose mélangeant subtilement design et plaisir de jouer. Ils veulent quelque chose de nouveau, de différent, d'existant. Warhammer prend donc le même chemin que D&D avec une approche plus ludique, plus visuel et s'adressant sans doute à un plus large public. De quoi redynamiser le hobby.

Source : http://www.jeepeeonline.be

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5724/rulebook.jpg

LeGrog a écrit:

Fantasy Flight Games a annoncé la sortie de la troisième édition de Wahrammer à une date indéterminée mais prochaine. Cette nouvelle édition, visiblement pas mal remaniée, prendra la forme d'une boite de base contenant :

    * 4 livres de règle,
    * 36 dés spéciaux,
    * des fiches de personnages,
    * 40 différentes carrières et 4 différentes races,
    * plus de 300 cartes d'actions à utiliser en jeu,
    * et de quoi garder à la main tous ce qu'il faut pour la séance de jeu.

Jay Little, l'un des auteurs, sera présent à la GenCon Indy du 13 au 15 Août, pour présenter cette nouvelle mouture au travers de conférences de presse.

Gamme : Warhammer
Editeur : Fantasy Flight Games
Date de sortie : indéterminée

Source : http://www.legrog.org/article.jsp?id=193

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#8 
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18-08-2009 07:04:55

Luhkah
ChaOtributeur
Date d'inscription: 14-06-2008
Messages: 572

Re: Fin de la V2

Et donc un jeu de plus auquel je ne jouerais pas...yeepeee !  hmm

Plus sérieusement, ça sent la pmpe a thune façon DD4, je ne suis pas fan... mais j'attend de voir !


"Le Pr. Luhkah a toujours quelque chose à dire !"

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#9 
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18-08-2009 09:46:55

Lynx
ChaOdiz Vétéran
Date d'inscription: 31-03-2009
Messages: 232

Re: Fin de la V2

Ouais, alors là, je crois que c'est sûr: il y a un syndrome terrible qui frappe le Jdr, le retour-au-jeu-de-plateau, et après D&D, c'est au tour de Warhammer...

Bon, on s'avance peut-être un peu, attendons de voir, mais je ne me fais quand même pas beaucoup d'illusions.
Sinon, je vous invite à observer ce lien: Fantasy Flight Games

Vous pourrez vous apercevoir que le prix indiqué sur ce site est de presque 100 dollars... Soit 71 euro!! mad Je pense quand même qu'il y a un sacré abus... Alors oui, faut voir le contenu, gna gna gna, mais personnellement, ils peuvent mettre tout ce qu'ils veulent dedans, je ne mettrais jamais ce prix là dans un Jdr.

Voilà pour le coup de gueule. hmm


« Ils sont gentils, affectueux, fidèles, exempts de toute fourberie ou de supercheries. Les mots signifiant mensonge, tromperie, cupidité, envie, calomnie, pardon, leurs sont inconnus. Ils ne ressentent pas de jalousies et n'ont aucun sens de la possession. C'est réel, ce que je croyais être un rêve. »

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#10 
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18-08-2009 11:27:51

Luhkah
ChaOtributeur
Date d'inscription: 14-06-2008
Messages: 572

Re: Fin de la V2

100...dollars ? yikes  Argh ! "s'étouffe et meurt"


"Le Pr. Luhkah a toujours quelque chose à dire !"

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#11 
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18-08-2009 11:46:24

Lynx
ChaOdiz Vétéran
Date d'inscription: 31-03-2009
Messages: 232

Re: Fin de la V2

Oui ça m'a fait pareil, fort heureusement un prêtre passant par là m'a ressuscité... Non mais, sans déconner, je crois que là on atteint la quintessence de la mode "pompe à fric ultime" qui touche le jdr en ce moment... roll


« Ils sont gentils, affectueux, fidèles, exempts de toute fourberie ou de supercheries. Les mots signifiant mensonge, tromperie, cupidité, envie, calomnie, pardon, leurs sont inconnus. Ils ne ressentent pas de jalousies et n'ont aucun sens de la possession. C'est réel, ce que je croyais être un rêve. »

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#12 
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21-08-2009 10:47:23

ChaOdiz-Padre
ChaOdizAdmin
Lieu: LYON
Date d'inscription: 02-12-2007
Messages: 3352
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Re: Fin de la V2

En fait, Warhammer était une pompe à fric depuis la V2, cependant, la qualité était présente. Mais on pouvait étaler les dépenses sur plusieurs mois. Là j'avoue que c'est abusé aussi...

J'ai quand même bien envie de voir ce que nous proposeront les nouvelles règles, car faire mieux que la V2, ça va être chaud...

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#13 
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26-08-2009 11:50:49

Docmorbide
Maitre ChaOdiz
Lieu: Grenoble
Date d'inscription: 20-12-2007
Messages: 518
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Re: Fin de la V2

Oui, c'est vrai que le JDR s'oriente vers un hybride entre jeu de plateau et JDR sur table classique.
Mais cette logique est guidé par les ventes.
Le JDR est en chute libre, tous ce qui se vend se sont les rééditions de règles des jeux précédent (cf warhammer, DD, cthulhu, earthdawn, shadowrun)neutral. Il n'y a pas de nouveaux jeux qui percent. Alors que les jeux de société, jeux de plateau, sont en grandes formes. Ils sont nombreux et ont une bonnes images. A chaque discussion avec un vendeur dans un magasin c'est le même constat, le jeu de société ça se vend bien mieux que le JDR.hmm

Donc voilà le nouvelle hybride warhammer, une boite qui contient tout, un début de JCC, de jeu de plateau, de jeu de rôle.
Bref une exploitation de licence à mon avis. Et si ca marche bien, ce sera le futur du JDR, ...


JDRA mythologique :  http://tylestel.free.fr/

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#14 
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26-08-2009 11:56:54

Lynx
ChaOdiz Vétéran
Date d'inscription: 31-03-2009
Messages: 232

Re: Fin de la V2

Mais le souci principal c'est que le français moyen ne connaît pas le jdr. Arrête un mec dans la rue, demande lui si il sait ce qu'est le jdr, au mieux il te répondra que c'est world of warcraft.

Sans compter toutes les rumeurs qui circulent comme quoi les rôlistes sont des tueurs psychopathes, sectaires et pédophiles de surcroît.
Donc forcément, le jdr n'est pas quelquechose qui rapporte puisque les gens soit ne savent pas ce que c'est, soit pense que c'est un jeu pour décérebré.

C'est là selon moi que l'on manque de quelquechose de crucial: une vraie organisation qui ferait  connaître le jdr, au moins en france. J'entends par là des gens qui iraient sur les plateaux télé expliquer ce que c'est, donnerait des interviews dans des journaux, etc. Des gens qui se bougent quoi.


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#15 
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26-08-2009 12:15:46

ChaOdiz-Padre
ChaOdizAdmin
Lieu: LYON
Date d'inscription: 02-12-2007
Messages: 3352
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Re: Fin de la V2

Dans tous les cas, l'aspect visuel joue aussi beaucoup, c'est pour ça que les jeux de figurines fonctionnent bien. L'imaginaire c'est une chose, mais ce n'est pas le tripe de tout le monde de s'imaginer et d'interpréter un univers. Pour initier de nouveaux joueurs et les faire apprécier le jdr, c'est souvent beaucoup plus facile avec : règles simples, figurines, cartes et actions directs.

J'arrive à comprendre l'orientation des éditeurs...

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#16 
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26-08-2009 13:22:38

khazagin
ChaOtributeur
Lieu: Poitiers
Date d'inscription: 22-12-2007
Messages: 646

Re: Fin de la V2

Ou est le smiley vomir?

J'ai déja Dédé 4 pour le coté tactique/plateau.
Pas question de me faire saloper mon warham avec des regles a la con. Autant je peux apprécier les dés bizarres et variés, autant les cartes et autres trucs tout restreints c'est pas question.

Ca, je vais pas acheter.
Si y"a du BG et tout dans la nouvelle édition d'accord; sinon je reste en v2, j'y suis tres bien, et je la trouve mieux que la v1 (pour les regles).

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#17 
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26-08-2009 13:25:23

ChaOdiz-Padre
ChaOdizAdmin
Lieu: LYON
Date d'inscription: 02-12-2007
Messages: 3352
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Re: Fin de la V2

M'en fout j'ai la V1 et la V2 tongue

J'ai pas vu ce que donne la V3, donc je ne peux pas trop dire, d'façon, faire mieux que la V2, c'est pas possible... Enfin si, regrouper une bonne partie des suppléments dedans et le tout au même prix, voir moins cher^^

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#18 
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26-08-2009 14:03:30

Lynx
ChaOdiz Vétéran
Date d'inscription: 31-03-2009
Messages: 232

Re: Fin de la V2

Alors je connais très mal le BG de Warhammer (longtemps que je m'y suis plus interessé) mais, si je ne m'abuse, cette version se déroule avant la V2 niveau Background.

Apparemment, ça se passerait avant la campagne Tempête du Chaos, et je crois ne pas trop m'avancer en disant que ça sera normalement plus proche de la V1 que de la V2 (en terme de Background bien sûr, en terme de règles ça se rapprochera plus de D&D 4, malheureusement)


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#19 
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26-08-2009 14:37:01

khazagin
ChaOtributeur
Lieu: Poitiers
Date d'inscription: 22-12-2007
Messages: 646

Re: Fin de la V2

Bah en fait c'est plus compliqué: le BG de la v3 se calque sur la nouvelle édition du jeu de figurines...c'est a dire au tout début de la Tempête du Chaos.
Oui oui, vous avez bien lu.

Ce qui veut dire que tout ce qui a été sorti en v2 comme campagne (voies de la damnation+milles trones) est HS au niveau BG.
Le probleme c'est que cette v3 n'est pas compatible non plus avec la v1 (Karl Franz, the big boss Empereur en v3 est...mort, en v1).
Donc, ENCORE un nouveau BG, toujours aussi éloigné de la v1 et qui efface la V2.


Archaon a fait vendre, Karl Franz a fait vendre, la v3 recommmence avec les mêmes.

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#20 
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26-08-2009 14:48:30

khazagin
ChaOtributeur
Lieu: Poitiers
Date d'inscription: 22-12-2007
Messages: 646

Re: Fin de la V2

Doublon; par contre, le point positif c'est que les illus sont plus jolies qu'avant lol

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#21 
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26-08-2009 18:43:55

Kelem
ChaOtributeur
Lieu: Poitiers / Paris
Date d'inscription: 17-02-2008
Messages: 922

Re: Fin de la V2

khazagin a écrit:

Bah en fait c'est plus compliqué: le BG de la v3 se calque sur la nouvelle édition du jeu de figurines...c'est a dire au tout début de la Tempête du Chaos.
Oui oui, vous avez bien lu.

Ce qui veut dire que tout ce qui a été sorti en v2 comme campagne (voies de la damnation+milles trones) est HS au niveau BG.
Le probleme c'est que cette v3 n'est pas compatible non plus avec la v1 (Karl Franz, the big boss Empereur en v3 est...mort, en v1).
Donc, ENCORE un nouveau BG, toujours aussi éloigné de la v1 et qui efface la V2.


Archaon a fait vendre, Karl Franz a fait vendre, la v3 recommmence avec les mêmes.

Bizarre quand même ce concept... Généralement le BG est quand même ce qui est sauvé dans les gros changements de version, comme pour D&D hein (qui n'a pas QUE des règles à la con bande de râleurs primaires langue3d /me toujours là pour défendre la veuve et l'orphelin D&D)

Et si le handicap de Warhammer n'était pas le jeu de plateau ? ^^


"Ah, le printemps ! La nature se réveille, les oiseaux reviennent, on crame des mecs..." (Kaamelott, II, 47)

SierrElben, prochainement sur vos écrans !

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#22 
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27-08-2009 00:51:55

ChaOdiz-Padre
ChaOdizAdmin
Lieu: LYON
Date d'inscription: 02-12-2007
Messages: 3352
Site web

Re: Fin de la V2

En parlant de jeu de plateau, tu parle du jeu de figurine ??

En fait non, ce n'est pas le handicap, c'est même la naissance et la force de base de ce jeu, sans le jeu de figurine, warhammer JDR n'aurait jamais vu le jour. Le gros travail est venu bien après avec la création d'un réel BG, qui est venu s'étoffer autour du jeu de bataille et du style basique calqué en partie sur un univers très connu de JRR TOLKIEN.

Question BG, maintenant Warhammer est très riche et même si on nous projette à d'autres époques, ce n'est pas un soucis en soi. Enfin pour moi.

J'ai quand même bien envie de voir ce que proposeront les prochaines règles, ça fait un peu cher quand même...

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#23 
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27-08-2009 11:47:46

khazagin
ChaOtributeur
Lieu: Poitiers
Date d'inscription: 22-12-2007
Messages: 646

Re: Fin de la V2

Bhé oui, c'est le jeu figurines/plateau qui est a l'origine du JDR, et les regles D100 ne sont que la transcription des regles de figurines. C'est une transcription quasi identique.

Mais avec la Campagne impériale le BG de la V1 a divergé énormément du jeu de figurines, et la v2 est venue faire le réallignement. Le soucis c'est que le BG v1 était plus interessant car plus complexe (y'avait pas que des bastons en gros; psk'en figurines c'est dur de faire autre chose). La v2 était un peu moche, avec son BG tempete du chaos (les gros méchant plus fort que jamais débarquent, foutent la zone, ravagent le nord et se font pile niquer de justesse devant middenheim par....des vampires et des orques...qui viennent juste la histoire de dire qu'ils sont pas moins fort que les autres, les humains s'étant alliés aux nains et elfes...la guerre de l'anneau quoi).
La v3 revient avant tout ca....donc ca peut etre mieux puisque c'est pas encore le gros bordel. Mais pour autant j'aimais bien les idées introduites a la fin de la v2: la tempete du chaos, en faisant disparaitre le grand théogoniste pendant un grand moment, puis revenir, puis introduire un gamin que tout le monde considere comme sigmar réincarné, puis disparaitre; conduit toute l'Eglise au bord du schisme. Et les ulricain sont pas en reste pour tirer leur épingle du jeu.
C'était quelque chose de proche de la v1 avec un climat de tension entre les factions religieuses.
En gros y'avait du pas mauvais qui sortait de cette grosse bouse de tempete du chaos.

La ca risque d'etre gommé, alors que ca devenait pas mal.

Pour autant, moi perso, je me suis appliqué a faire jouer sois apres la tempete (prise comme des "troubles dans le nord" assez ignorés des gens, sauf comme rumeurs), soit carrément selon le BG v1, avec la campagne impériale.
Donc les changements de BG me laissent un peu sur la touche. Je prend que ce qui me plait.

La je vais voir si y'a du BG pas mauvais qui sort; si c'est cool je récupere.
Sinon j'ai déja des regles qui me vont bien, pas besoin de payer 100$ pour d'autres (mais je vais juste jeter un oeil sur les nouveaux dés qui amenent des situations en fonction de leurs combinaisons. Y'aura peut etre des trucs a sauver dedans. L'inconvénient du systeme est, cependant, qu'on risque de décrire l'action en fonction du jet de dés et non pas en fonction de la volonté RP du joueur et du MJ. Mais faut voir).

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#24 
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27-08-2009 12:10:54

Lynx
ChaOdiz Vétéran
Date d'inscription: 31-03-2009
Messages: 232

Re: Fin de la V2

C'est sûr qu'il y aura forcément du bon dans cette V3, maintenant, même si ils mettent une nana en prime, je pense pas dépenser 100€ d'un coup dans un Jdr (Remarque, si la nana est mignonne... roll).


« Ils sont gentils, affectueux, fidèles, exempts de toute fourberie ou de supercheries. Les mots signifiant mensonge, tromperie, cupidité, envie, calomnie, pardon, leurs sont inconnus. Ils ne ressentent pas de jalousies et n'ont aucun sens de la possession. C'est réel, ce que je croyais être un rêve. »

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#25 
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29-08-2009 09:45:59

khazagin
ChaOtributeur
Lieu: Poitiers
Date d'inscription: 22-12-2007
Messages: 646

Re: Fin de la V2

Tiens, pour me conforter dans l'idée de pas passer en v3, je viens de me prendre un livre de base v2 a 25euro.
(je jouais avec celui de marc et un pdf).

Vala, ca, c'est fait.

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